Not Fan Of Rolling Jubilee

“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” -Albert Einstein

While I am not against this effort, but this is not something opposite consciousness and therefore not the solution.  This will probably be either not a wise use of funds or a waste of time.

  • It still works inside of the debt and death paradigm.  (You cannot solve a debt problem with more debt, restructured debt or bailouts.)
  • It still legitimizes the system.  (The entire system is rigged and this is like hacking at the fallen leaves instead of the root.)
  • It is collectivist action to benefit which faceless individuals? Insiders of the OWS? Banks who can get anything for this debt? (This goes against the 4 ways of spending money. The worst way to spend money is a collective on a collective.)
  • It does not change the risk takers behavior? (Moral hazard.)
  • And it is not that much different than the banker bailout. (Taking other peoples money to benefit a few individuals, does not change the system.)

The debt system is going to collapse. If these guys wanted to make real change, they should be encouraging people to walk away from and become independent of the system.   I believe the Silver Bullet Silver Shield plan is of the opposite consciousness solution to a collective problem.

  • It works outside of the system.  (Cannot be recognized as a threat or stopped.)
  • It de-legitimatizes the system.  (We empower systems with our time, attention and money.  This way we empower ourselves and collapse what we once supported.)
  • It is an individual effort to benefit themselves. (The best way to spend money is for an individual to buy something for themselves. This bring the most thought and value for their dollar.)
  • It forces the individual to take responsibility for their own actions and ultimately for them to become a blessing to others. (Want to really help people?  Buy silver so that when the dollar collapses you can take your real wealth and pay off all the debts of friends and families not just some unsecured credit card debt of a faceless OWS 20 year old.)
  • Individuals helping other individuals is the solution. (Taking responsibility of a problem and truly changing behavior is at the heart of this problem.)

18 comments to Not Fan Of Rolling Jubilee

  • I don’t believe that anyone is purporting Rolling Jubilee to be an “end-all-be-all” solution to our Debt culture. Even if it’s not a perfect system, it’s better than “hoard lots of precious metal” which seems to be what you’re suggesting here. Besides, what better way to facilitate the hoarding of silver than to absolve someone’s debt, now instead of making payments to some sheisty debt-collection company, that individual now has more of their take-home pay to hoard silver!

    What better way to facilitate the demise of this debt-driven economic engine vis-a-vis individuals “walking away” (as you put it) than to give them hope that their debt will be forgiven?

    • Silver Shield

      Becoming independent of the system is the goal of the SBSS.

      1.Get rid of Toxic thoughts.
      2. Get rid of Toxic relationships.
      3. get rid of Toxic assets. (Counter-party risk paper assets.)
      4. Get rid of Toxic Paths in life. (Stop actively or passively supporting the debt and death paradigm.)

      A debt default benefits those in debt and those that have real tangible assets.
      NOT those without real assets and no debt, which is what this OWS solution is doing.

    • Steve

      Non sequitur, Aaron. Though your argument holds potential merit, it is ultimately absurd on the grounds of logical incongruence. To conclude that the average debt holder would hoard silver, or even more generally improve their economic situation if their debt were forgiven, is to make a rather hasty assumption that the average person is economically literate, and even then so, conscious of silver or any other precious metal’s ultimate value. All that can be said of this scenario, if A relieves B of their debt, is that B will be relieved of their debt, thanks to A. Yes, the potential for wise spending exists, but is not a logical conclusion. They might decide to incur more debt, encouraged by the thought that someone will once again bail them out, but even this statement, inexorably, does not follow from the premise, thus proving my point.

      Furthermore, the specific mentioning of precious metal-stacking as a negative in one instance, while shortly thereafter referring to it in the positive, is a rather glaring argumentum ad passiones. In other words, you were appealing to Chris’s emotions…and it didn’t work.

      I suggest you take the necessary steps to improve your logic, or, if delivering fallacies was your goal, try it someplace other than where a bunch of deep-thinking individuals hang out, who can detect your drivel and deconstruct it in short order.

      Keep on having fun.

      • Mark K

        I am curious about your knowledge of Logic. Can you please relate how and from where you learned these methods? Thanx.

        • Steve

          Like many who endured the public education system, my first conscious understanding of logic did not come about until high school math classes, where it is taught through application to geometric forms, but not conceptually discussed or carried over into other applications…at least not overtly. From there, a dabbling in various classics, then through listening to talk radio shows where arguments are made and fallacies are revealed. And of course there is a much more convenient way of discovering logic and its inherent fallacies, and that is through the Internet…but question what you find…as you should with everything that you read or hear.

          • Steve

            In addition, the Trivium provides ample opportunity to improve your logic. I just found this software program which is a detailed tutorial on fallacies:

            http://macinmind.com/?area=app&app=fallacy&pg=info

            When you understand these fallacies, you will start to recognize them within common discourse – some more readily than others. Reading and analyzing is much easier than listening and picking them up as you go. That being said, bear in mind that “logic” is not the end all be all. Henry Hazlitt defined logic as the rudder of your vessel, giving you the ability to properly direct yourself. Logic is not what gives your vessel the ability to propel, nor is it the action which serves to propel. Those features are made possible by your physical mind, and the process of thinking as an actual science, respectively.

  • Suave

    Although its great to see OWS actually doing something to help solve a problem now, paying back only 5% of loan does little to improve what the occupiers complain about in the first place. This still leaves 95% of the loan that was created out of thin air thru the magic of fractional reserve banking. This money went into the local economies, driving up inflation and creating the bubble that finally burst.

  • Jamie

    I see both sides of the subject here…
    The OWS solution would work alot better if we could actually detail who was being helped and then open them to Chris’ thoughts of this toxic world…then, show them the value of buying silver.
    But from what I understand, when the group buys a pack of debt, they don’t really know who it belongs to…
    Chris may not exactly resonate with the OWS movement, but he has a powerful message and one thing that needs to happen is to make more people aware of this message. There are a lot of talented people trying to come up with solutions. Just how many of the OWS people do you think has even heard this info? They need to be shown this path to take if they choose. I know Chris would rather work with a small community of people who “get it”, but I have to wonder if he stopped short of what could have been. I advocate collaboration instead of dismissal. Introduce yourself to the movement organizers and see if there was a way to combine efforts for a broader scope result~

    • Silver Shield

      I am not interested or pushing my ideas on other organizations before the Anger Phase, it is a poor use of resources.
      The New Bolsheviks of OWS will cling and rehash collectivism many more times before they even think about my kind of solutions.

  • Matt

    “It does not change the risk takers behavior”
    Word.

    Aaron says “now instead of making payments to some sheisty debt-collection company, that individual now has more of their take-home pay to hoard silver!”

    I don’t buy it. I’m sure some folks will realize that they’ve gotten a hand up, and mend their ways. Most, however, will prolly be right back where they started in a year or two. It’s a lesson I’ve had to learn a few times the hard way before I “got” it.

  • k hergott

    Is this some kind of joke ?
    ” meet the new boss – same as the old boss”
    … buying obedience

    huh

  • All it would do is create a bit of deflation as the debt money is destroyed, or ‘forgiven’. I’m sure some folk will be thinking “hallelujah, I’m saved” once they’ve received a call stating their debt is forgiven, but the OWS donations have effectively just made a banker think “suckers”. Don;t forget they created the debt out of thin air and then someones labour went into paying it off – even if it a mere 5% of the original debt.

    This solution is BOLLOX as we’d state from my neck of the woods. In fact, it’s worse than BOLLOX, it actually – and MATHEMATICALLY – kicks the can down the road just so some idiot can sing, “hallelujah”.

    It’s a red-herring.

    Keep stacking.

    PS My SSSB rounds should arrive soon hopefully, i’ll send you a pic of the little man with his shield around him, Chris :-)

  • A Gardener

    I agree with Chris. By the way here are two short recent Ron Paul interviews that I think are worth watching.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-13/ron-paul-0-chance-grand-bargain-over-fiscal-cliff
    http://maxkeiser.com/2012/11/13/secession/#comments

    I also agree with @Gareth, Keep stacking physical Ag.

  • Jamie

    I still see both sides. Keep in mind the TYPE of debt they seem to be abolishing is MEDICAL debt. This is different from saying: Hey, Joe Blow spent frivolously on a credit card…so, let’s bail him out.

  • Robert

    I firmly believe that the philosophy of Ayn Rand, Objectivism is the answer. As demonstrated in her epic, Atlas Shrugged, the producers “walked away” leaving the second handers, glad handers, and corrupt, alone to figure it out on their own which they couldn’t. I try to operate like a scientist.
    I try to prove things wrong, in order to get to the solution or answer. I haven’t been able to find any flaws in the philosophy nor have I ever found anyone else who was able to discredit Ms. Rand. I agree with Chris. Opt out and walk away. The paradigm must be destroyed completely. Total Purge.
    Men of the mind and self esteem must step up and fill the vacuume and rebuild. Morality is the only answer. Morality, capitalism, freedom. Anyone or any sytem that believes that we as individuals are here to serve the collective is operating on faulty logic and morality.
    If every individual was held accountable to his actions and it was enforced (true capitalism) society would reap the benefits from the success and prosperity of the individual. In order to be a free man of self esteem I live by and believe in these words. “For my life and my love of it, I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask a another man to live for mine.” – John Galt
    We have been enslaved. I despise it.

  • David

    Amen to that brother!

  • Jason H

    I don’t see how this is “beating Wall St at their own game.” The banks take a loss to these debtors whether the debt collectors buy it or OWS buys it. They are missing the larger point about the mathematic impossibility of paying back all debt. The money OWS raises and uses to extinguish debt, is also debt itself as all money is debt. And that money has interest attached, so it is owed back to banks as well.

    This is a drop in the ocean, perhaps well-intended, but shortsighted and lacking the ability to have any material impact. We need systemic change.

    http://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/worldwide-debt-default-jubilee-is-the-only-solution/

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