Andy Hoffman & Chris Duane


  • Chandu

    Criminals @ JP Morgan have manipulated metal markets to such henious extent with fake paper contracts, too many people have become too frustrated over last 2-3 months predicting real bottom. This is exactly what the criminals wanted.

    Some people who did not have physical wherewithal overspeculated and literally lost their shirt. Of course, it was wrong on their part to overspeculate. But nothing in the face of logic, accelarated QE & increased global demand would justify metal prices to keep crashing the way they have been. Only slightly positive glimmer of news in recent times have been so-called “Iran peace deal”. But by itself, Iran deal cannot justify these daily rollercoaster dives.

    Long term logic associated with physical tangible metal assets remains unchanged. Expectation of “when and by what magnitude this expected bottom is supposed to appear” has wrecked the short term.

  • Wilford

    Something found posted elsewhere. Perhaps many more intelligent minds here could comment on this?


    Precious metal ownership no panacea. Hidden confiscation thru rigged taxation?

    Something that I haven’t seen discussed much whenever “physical confiscation of precious metals” topics come up. Perhaps answers to what I’m thinking are out there, maybe my searching isn’t good enough. If anyone knows better about these taxation discussions, pls point me to it:

    I’ll stick to US for my discussion. Currently, US federal tax system treats long term sales of bullion as equivalent to “collectibles”, i.e. same as antique paintings or rugs. I’m not talking about fancy super-duper numismatics. Even basic bullion such as Gold or Silver eagles if held over long term & profits made is federally taxed @ a rate of 28% as “collectibles”! To me, this is an extremely hypocritical position on part of the government.

    Since time immemorial, personal possession of precious metals by ordinary middle-class citizens have been a huge threat to tyrants & fascists. If I recall correctly, societies like Soviet Union forbade private citizens to own gold bullion. Currently over (or hyper) inflated societies like India have literally imposed capital controls over gold bullion possession by private citizens. Such situations invariably lead to rise of black markets and smuggling across nation boundaries. This is happening big time from Thailand into India right now.

    From this, I’ll now lead into the physical confiscation point. Sure, a repeat of FDR “pseudo-confiscation” executive order may not happen again. What I’m thinking is, the government may not even physically need to confiscate gold that way. They can always rig the taxation system through legislation & enforce hidden confiscation. It is a known fact that only 1% of American population physically owns any precious metals. If and when economy deteriorates severely, let’s imagine a solution to launch new currency backed by real asset like gold is devised. Ruling criminal banker cabal in such case could always launch propaganda campaign to paint the small responsible middle-class who took precious metal physical ownership as “part of the bad 1% guys” responsible for economic woes.

    Since popular democracy is a rigged system & easily manipulated through propaganda, banker cabal knows how to use it as a tool for the devil. United States is not even supposed to a popular democracy, but we’ve gone so far down a brainwashed road that very few people are even aware of this. My point is, the ruling cabal can always launch propaganda campaign for bringing in new legislation increasing tax rates even more than current 28% for precious metal bullion holders. This can be the “hidden taxation confiscation” a fascist ruling class can always come up with through propaganda. Considering such threats, precious metal ownership by itself cannot be considered a panacea. The threat of changes to tax policies regarding this must be monitored closely.

    Of course, such situations would lead to proliferation of black market economy similar to countries like India, Pakistan, Thailand, Egypt etc. Or similar to the grandpas & grandmas during FDR’s time who kept their gold to themselves & defied the executive order.

    Any thoughts on this hidden confiscation thru taxation point?

    • Silver Shield

      The Ultimate Exit Strategy addresses this negative taxation environment by borrowing against our silver in our silver bank.
      Also Silver, like capital, will go where it is most appreciated both in value and respect.

      • David

        “Also Silver, like capital, will go where it is most appreciated both in value and respect”.

        Yep. In the current dollar-based paradigm plenty of people and businesses have moved away from California [as one poignant example], and some fiscally irresponsible/screwed cities with massive debt, to places that have lower rates of housing, rent, salaries, utilities, taxes, and bureaucratic stupidity.

      • Wilford

        Thank you, will take a closer look @ this proposed solution of yours.

      • These posts I’ve been seeing lately make me super jealous, lol I have to admit.

        They are becoming somewhat common now and I have to say that I agree with your long term outlook of bitcoin….but man, if I had just made a stand earlier I could have some real/false temporary buying power to get REAL assets. Ii love the quote you made, “Those who get something for nothing means that someone else got nothing for something”.

  • Justin DeArmond

    Funny you mention Magic the Gathering..i used to play that a ton when I was in my teens (mid to late 90s) and even back then the cards were worth lots, but nothing like today, I just read the other day on ebay a Black Lotus (rarest card in the game) sold for 27,000 bucks! Of course I see this article 2 or 3 days after I sell all of my cards, albeit for just a couple of hundred dollars. I had no idea that Mt. Gox was initially formed to trade Magic cards, that says a lot to me about BitCoin right there. Hard to explain the mentality of a Magic player unless you played the game as well, but trust me most are not the most balanced people you will meet and most are arrogant egotistical assholes, especially on the competitive level of tournament play (yes there are international tournaments that have tens of thousnads of dollars of prize money, in fact there are some professional players that do nothing but play Magic for a living). It was a lot of fun to play but as I matured I saw it for what it was…a game yes, but also a black hole for cash, new sets every 6months, new rules stating you can or cant use older cards every few months, and now days because of the value of the cards most “players” are more worried about their investment than playhing the game….when I sold my cards every crease or damaged spot was nitpicked by the buyer…was more interested in monetary value rather than playability of the cards. The game now takes itself way too seriously….its just a game….same as bitCoin…a blackhole for your dollars, you have to deal with arrogant assholes defending every little aspect of it and just generally not fun to be involved with…id rather hold a beautiful shiny silver bar/coin in my hand (makes me smile every time!)that be worried about the volatility of my “commodity”. Just my two cents…of course my two cents is worth 37 dollars and change!

  • Wilford

    Chris, listened to your “borrow against metal” talk carefully. Never heard of this strategy before. Does such mechanism exist right now, meaning banks willing to write loans against tangible metal if I hypothetically wanted to obtain one today? Or something expected to become available as a “new” instrument during future tumultous times?

    I’m aware of current “borrow against equity in real estate” strategy. In fact I used it multiple times over last 5 years to achieve debt-free possession of income-producing properties. This involves apparaisal of property & is equivalent to cash-out refinance. How does borrow against metal work? Do banks appoint some neutral appraiser to examine metal & assay it? Also, what about physical storage for it? Do they require metal to be held under some escrow account’s secure vault over duration of loan?

    I feel, when hyperinflation-followed by-deflation phase hits similar to 1929 to 1935, credit gets totally sucked out of the system. Banks were not writing out many loans during that period at all, except for extremely low risk cases. In some bank were to issue loan against metal during deflationary environment, would they allow physical possession of metal by the borrower? What if borrower ran away with metal to another country like Switzerland? My hunch is that lender would require some escrow vault guarding the metal & maybe keep partially releasing it as principal gets paid off. Comments about my line of thinking?

    • Silver Shield

      No it does not exist right now and would not trust it in this paradigm given the power the bankers and politicians have right now.

      I have been working to create a decentralized group of silver stackers that can then work together in establishing our own bank after the collapse.

      • Wilford

        Thanks, I find such concept very intriguing. What is the process, if I wanted to be participant in something like that in future? (Could possibly be interested in role either side of borrowing/lending fence. It’s impossible to predict about lending role for certain right now.)

  • Mean no disrespect by posting comments with links. Sorry if it’s taken that way.

  • The NEW BitCoin Wallet

    Even Ron Paul can put it in his pocket.

  • Cleburne61

    Chris….you’ve always said ‘listen to all and follow none’…

    But some of this stuff about the CIA you’ve offered over time, with no offered proof or evidence….coming from someone who(like me) missed out on the 100,000% move in 2 calendar years…well, it comes across as sour grapes. Even if not intended that way.

    We know CIA is highly interested in BTC. We know they’ve held conferences on it. Without offering the evidence though, these claims do zip to help this community.

    If the CIA really is behind this to funnel $ away from gold and silver….they’re failing, as more and more silver stackers are becoming quite wealthy, and will doubtless flip their “winnings” into our metal of choice.

    If you or I had swapped 1 silver coin 3 years ago for the BTC it would’ve bought, you could now take delivery of roughly a few monster boxes full…

    You’ve coined the term, “historically significant”….well friend, that reality is historically significant. You were wrong on BTC, I blame myself for following along the same lines…it was my doing. I hold no one else responsible for my blind spots, but at this point, I’m man enough to take off the blinders…I can admit when I was wrong.

    And no, I don’t plan on selling a single oz to buy a single BTC. Sadly if everyone on your list of subscribers had bought just $200 in BTC back when several knowledgeable silver stackers were telling us too….your decentralized silver community could now break the Comex all by themselves…

    And that’s a fact.

    • Silver Shield

      The CIA held a conference called the Future of Money and then a week later crashed to zero.
      CIA has been involved in illegal drug running and assassinations and coups and their big question to the lead Bitcoin programmer is are you afraid it will be used for evil?!
      Those are facts.
      The elite would love to delude the public into anything that has no value. silver etfs, stocks, lottery tickets or bitcoins.
      The problem with Ponzi schemes are people throw sanity out to chase greedy profit.
      Sure we could have made a bunch of dollars but it could have lost a lot because it can and has been worth zero.
      And now where it is are you really going to by one Bitcoin or 50 ounces of silver?
      You say break the Comex? You will never break it because they will settle in cash or simply pull a hunt brother on you.
      Speculators play with the same consciousness as the guys they claim they are fighting and yet they empower them by diverting energy and capital away from the physical reality and solutions at our hands.

      Don’t worry that you missed bitcoin there are 50 other ones out there and I am sure hundreds more.

      Please sell all of your silver and put all your wealth on a hard drive.

      I will continue to sleep very well at night with my decision to sit in the last chair and wait for the music to stop.

      The largest transfer of wealth is coming from intangible debt based assets to real tangible wealth. This will come when humanity is also most desperate. Do you really want to play around with the latest hype?

      Finally, when a few get something for nothing the srt will get nothing for something. You don’t need a very long memory just look at the tech bubble.

      • Wilford

        BTW Chris, when you get a chance…Am interested in knowing more about details on that “borrow against metal” strategy you’re working on, how to get involved with it, etc. Thanks.

      • Cleburne61

        My friend, I’ve already told you, I’m NOT going to sell a single oz to chase anything(we’re the same there). This isn’t about silver, Chris, that’s not the lesson learned here.

        This is about opening my mind up to the fact that while we both had silver right, it’s entirely possible we had bitcoin wrong.

        That’s the heart of the matter. BrotherJohn, Davinci and a whole host of other true comrades are as hardcore as it gets into silver…and yet they held a window of their minds open, so that in the event that this payment system proved to have utility value, they might still benefit from it.

        Their open-mindedness trumped my closed-mindedness.

        The BTC unit isn’t what’s valuable, it’s the payment system. The market is speaking, and many of us are still not listening.

        You’re right, silver stackers will have our day in the sun, but I didn’t say what I did because I’m fed up with silver and wanna chase “a bubble”. I said what I did, because I still see so many who’ve dug their ideological trenches, and refuse to come out….and it’s a damn shame.

        I don’t see bitcoin as some sort of 2nd Coming, but that does not mean I’m ideologically bound to think it’s some sort of e-ponzi garbage by extension…

        • Silver Shield

          I am sorry but how could I be wrong if I choose not to profit off of a fraud?
          I am sure I could have made a ton of money creating a Ponzi Scheme like Rob Gray did? Or dealing drugs or something else.
          The fixation on profit is going to be the down fall for many as it is a trick the Elite have used and I will not step one foot into their game.
          I refuse hundreds of bitcoin of donations… Including BrotherJohn (who I still like)
          Will you be open minded about the replacement currency for the dollar?
          Or how about about the mark of the beast?

          All of the “benefits” of Bitcoin are falling apart. It is not anonymous… it is not free… it is too volatile to be used as a currency… the bankers do not fear it, they love it… China does not like it they just said that it is not a currency only a speculative investment.

          It is not even a great payment system. Dwolla is better for payment without currency speculation or the greater fool.

          As for ideological trenches… We are going to be heading into the most dangerous time in human history with the collapse of the dollar, if you don’t have your trench dug by now and know what you are going to expose yourself to or stand for, you will simply become historical roadkill.

          I will never waver off of real skills, friends and wealth.

    • Wilford

      Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

      In the face of massive manipulation & rigging, only thing that stands test of time is staying true to fundamentals. Criminals can play all the games they like, creating & bursting bubbles. Those who remained steadfast with fundamentals would always come ahead. Truth always wins in the end over darkness.

  • JM

    Hi Chris, let me tell you about my experience with MtGox and Bitcoin. Couple of weeks ago I bought £1000 worth of bitcoin through MtGox (I reside in the UK). I’m the only one that uses my laptop and I never use Internet cafe’s, also, I always make sure my laptop is protect via anti-virus software. To my shock and horror, yesterday I logged onto my email to see this message from MtGox
    There has been a withdrawal from your Mt.Gox account:

    > You can access your account history for more details.
    > Please contact us as soon as possible by replying to this email if you did not request this withdrawal.
    > Thanks,
    > The Mt.Gox Team


    I obviously emailed them straight away to tell them, that I did not make any withdrawals, I also logged into my MtGox account and sure enough, all gone, just like that, not bitcoin, no funds. After about 24 hours later here’s the reply I received from MtGox.

    Dear Valued Customer,
    Thank you for waiting and sorry for delay. Please be advised the your withdrawal has already been processed and I have pasted the link below for your reference.
    As you have mentioned that this was not authorized by you we request you to change your email address password and Mt.Gox password immediately and we also request not to use the same username and password on different services. You may wish to use the Yubikey or Software Authentication on our Security Center to further secure your accounts. Unfortunately we will not be able to reverse the stolen funds.
    Please file a police report in order for the police to investigate the case so that they can make an effort to retrieve the funds and once filing a police report, please send a copy of the police report and your official ID document to Mt.Gox. We will cooperate with the police authority in providing the necessary information for the investigation, but we are unable to reimburse any stolen funds.
    Let us know if you have any other questions.
    Best regards,
    Mt.Gox Team

    So there you have it, all gone within a few seconds my £1000 has disappeared. I have been running my own internet retail business for several years & I regularly purchase and bank on the Internet, I buy/sell shares through the Internet, pay bills, I’ve never had my money stolen, yet someone in one swoosh took £1000 from MtGox platform I was using, just like that! My own theory is, this was an inside job by MtGox, because they know, I can’t do anything about this. All this nonsense about getting a police report and sending it to MtGox who are based in Japan is just a load off bull. And I wonder how many people have lost money like me. If your thinking about buying bitcoins, be very careful. the fact is, you don’t know who your sending your money to & if something goes wrong, well thats it, you can’t pin anyone down. And do you know what, the last time I checked I still have all my physical silver I have accumulated over the last year.

  • Quite1walksalone

    Bottom Line- If the crowd goes North, You go South!

  • Anyone put stock in a Wall Street Pundit that says there will an announcement coming soon with respect to transitioning to a Cashless – – Digital Currency? Rumored that process will take 12-18 months; with a date certain – – for one to turn in their Dollars for the Conversion – – or lose it all.

    If there even an ounce of truth in this highly speculative statement; could it be tied to the Bitcoin in some way – – either to move it forward in a huge way; or, to undermine it entirely? I’m just a small gold & silver Guy watching it value continue to decline; and, getting a bit nervous. “How Low can it Go?”


  • kip caven

    People who thought that bitcoins could serve as either an investment vehicle or an alternative world currency got their heads handed to them on Thursday and Friday. That’s when the price of the attention-grabbing crypto-currency got crushed, falling from a quoted $1,200 per “coin” to less than $600. At this writing, it’s quoted on the Mt. Gox exchange at about $830.,0,7011276.story#ixzz2mvVWn4fT

  • RF

    Sorry, but I have ZERO faith in something this new. I’ll stick to what has stood the test of time over 5,000 years, and that is gold and silver.

    I’m not out to “get rich quick” because that usually fails for 99% of the people.

    All I am trying to do in this wicked world is to keep what I have and to have ZERO “fiat” worthless dollars.

    I’m a frightened senior citizen raising my handicapped grandson and pray God will give all of us the correct knowledge to protect ourselves and not fall for the elite tricks.

  • There are only 2 types of people.People who possess & people who don’t!

  • Jimmy

    I don’t understand this PM vs. BTC drama…why not own BOTH?

    Big-time sour grapes on the part of those who didn’t get on the BTC train back when is was trading at a few bucks each…

    LOL at the rants against “profit”…as if PM investors aren’t expecting to profit from owning PM!

  • AnonPatriot

    “truth always wins in the end over darkness”?

    From the “Liberty Metals Group” website: “…new mine production totals approximately only 5 million troy ounces a year (of platinum), whereas gold mine production runs approximately 82 million ounces a year and silver production is approximately 547 million ounces.” (source:

    Hmmm… Maybe THIS is the reason why silver trades at such a lower ‘spot’ price, compared to gold and platinum? 547 (FIVE HUNDRED and FORTY-SEVEN) MILLION ounces per annum of silver mined. Is there a push, perhaps, among silver bullion dealers, to SELL surplus silver, by saying that a future shortage is looming, on the horizon? Chris Duane: RSVP, please – your answer to this question?


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